Tag results

Following the strategic planning process

So if you follow any Wikimedia project or mailing list, you would be hard pressed not to have noticed that the strategic planning process has begun. The plan has several stages, and the current one includes collecting and discussing proposals. I made my first one yesterday: to implement OAuth in MediaWiki (following on from my post on Decentralising Wikimedia).

Anyway. That is not what I came to say. I was trying to think of how I could keep an eye on these proposals, without having to come each day and manually figure out what had been added. Then I remembered that Special:NewPages has a feed. And better yet, it can filter by namespace… and the proposal pages are all being created in their own namespace! woot.

So to subscribe to a feed of the new proposals, just follow one of these: RSS or Atom.

Now what you get is not very pretty looking, but it is better than nothing. There are 10 or more proposals a day at the moment.

Happy feed reading and strategising.

20 August, 2009 • ,

WMF board election - who cares?

If you are usually logged in to your user account when you visit Wikipedia et al, you may have noticed this lately:

A call for candidates for the Wikimedia Foundation Board election. What is that? What do they do? Why would you want to be a candidate and what difference does the result make anyway?

The introductory notes say:

Being a Board member of a small organization like the Wikimedia Foundation, which faces immense challenges, can be time-consuming. The position is voluntary and unpaid. While board members are not expected to bring personal money to the organisation, they are welcome to help raise funds.

Board members are expected to attend at least 3–4 meetings per year in person, attend Wikimania (our annual conference), and attend other scheduled online meetings and votes. The Board communicates intensively via e-mail, wiki, and IRC. Individual trustees sometimes participate in strategic meetings with other organizations and companies, relaying results back to Board and staff.

Individual board members are expected to be involved in certain activities (such as fundraising, Wikimania, or auditing) and to help draft policies, charters and resolutions on such topics.

The election is to fill the first three slots in this graphic (also on Commons), the “community elected” seats:

So if you were elected, you’d be working with this lot. You should definitely also study the Staff page, because they are all the people who will actually be doing stuff. Other recommended reading: Values and Policies. The best overall guide should be the Board manual (and I hope it’s up to date!).

There are several bad reasons one might want to join the Board. They include:

What is hard to see clearly at the moment is clear information about where the board is at and what its role is these days. There are lots of staff now, so being a board member is much more about setting the direction and stepping back to let the staff carry it out. In fact my guess is that the major task for the next board will be the strategic planning, for which several staff are being hired to carry out.

Questions (in order) that I will look for answers to among Board candidates are:

Currently with ten more days for candidates to announce themselves, there are 11 that have already done so. Some are repeat offendersprevious candidates:

Now 2008 had 15 candidates for 1 position. With 3 positions up for election — on one hand I shudder at how many candidates there might end up with, but on the other, I’m disappointed to think we might not get enough good candidates. I would hate to see the community seats become a ghetto of the inexperienced/confused/axe-grinders.

For repeat candidates, my additional question will be: what’s changed? WMF has changed. Have you changed? Has your response or attitude changed? Or else has the community changed? If nothing’s changed, and the community did not previously give you significant support — why are you wasting our time?

10 July, 2009 • , ,

Comment [5]

Interview with Sue Gardner

Gerard is right. Kudos to Liam on behalf of Wikipedia Weekly. His interview with Sue Gardner should be required listening for all Wikimedians who care about the Foundation’s influence on the future of Wikimedia.

I kinda hope Ben Yates is busy drafting a transcript at the moment, because someone should. :)

From the 2008-09 financial plan Q&A:

What is “[…]volunteer development” funding?

The “volunteer development” money is an experiment, and if it works we will probably increase the size of allocation in future. It will pay for a variety of small, one-off initiatives – for example, it might be used to pay for printing costs for brochures for a volunteer outreach event. It might subsidize a workshop, or offset small costs for other specific initiatives.

Why so little for volunteer development?

The volunteer development fund primarily relates to volunteer organizational work, such as press work, participation through chapters, technical contributions, and so forth. As we are still in the process of developing policies and best practices around volunteer development, we have deliberately kept the overall amount relatively low in this budget, but we hope to scale up these efforts intelligently in the coming years.

Hm. I find there is a scale difference between printing fliers and holding a Wikinews conference.

07 August, 2008 • ,

Comment [2]

Micromanagement

WMF is occasionally, although rarely, accused of micromanaging the communities. (This would be something like: inappropriately detailed interference in the management of the projects’ development or processes.) But it occurs to me that the community is having incredible trouble letting go of micromanaging the Foundation.

I suppose slowly, eventually, people will let go – or more to the point, realise they have been made obsolete.

Either that, or the claims of the Foundation being “out of touch” will increase.

27 March, 2008 • ,

Comment [5]

The Kaltura brouhaha

It all began (publicly) with a press release, mid-January. No, wait. The average Wikimedian would first have had the opportunity to hear of it via a Wikinews ‘leak’. That was about a week beforehand. A few days after the press release, Jay Walsh had what must have been a baptism of fire in making the announcement to the community.

So, mailing list firebomb. The main points of contention were

In the future I hope the Foundation will first seek community input on technology partnerships: A flash slideshow editor isn’t anything anyone here has been asking for, as far as I can tell… But we have thousands of other widely desired features, many of which could have substantial external components ripe for partnership.

In the end these concerns were all more or less assuaged by, of all people, the developers. The replies went something like

In another post Greg commented, I’m unhappy that despite prior discussions, staff is acting like people finding proprietary formats is a surprise. (Greg would not be the only one, here.)

This comment and similar sentiments perhaps prompted Florence, the Board chair, to post a draft resolution on a File formats policy. It has not yet been posted publicly as a passed resolution.

In the end, everyone seems content enough with where we all stand, but really, we went through some serious drama to get there. Drama started by others (like, journalists) is one thing, but I don’t think it should be quite so difficult to spot which of WMF’s own announcements are going to be the fire starters.

So there you go, that’s my view of the Kaltura brouhaha.

13 February, 2008 • , ,

Comment [3]

Free software on a free content project

You would think that if anyone could appreciate limited value to security through obscurity, it would be Wikipedia editors. —After all, Wikipedia is destroying the similar notion of “authority through obscurity” or “reliability through obscurity”. There’s a very clear parallel between the open source software development model and the Wikipedia editorial process. And yet… it is not the case.

The latest drama on en.wp is about intentionally adding hundreds of useless edits to the [[Main Page]] to make it undeletable. Deleting the main page is a hallmark of an administrator gone rouge, you see. I think it’s kind of cool that you can earn the cred to be able to delete the front page of a top ten website. Apparently for some people this is too much temptation.

In part these useless edits were added by an already-contentious bot, which performs a variety of routine tasks. The issue came up about what was the “contingency plan” given that this bot account was blocked.

I don’t know that we have a contingency plan for such things. The bot system is like the wild west. Everyone runs their own code and there is very little [sic?] redundancy. — Carl

The bot owner responded:

As for the source for my bots, I am willing to share it with people that I can trust. I wrote RfC bot and gladly handed that code out to a user that I know is responcible [sic]. I have also written code for other users and they have abused it, since then I only give it to people I can trust. — βcommand

Simetrical, one of the developers, responded:

Of course, all this would be an excellent argument for requiring that all bots on Wikipedia be entirely open-source, and that this be periodically verified by someone attempting to run the bot on a test wiki and making sure it actually works as advertised. Why Wikipedia has not yet agreed on this I’m not sure, except to the extent that it seems never to be able to agree on anything. (Yes, yes, anti-vandal bots’ source code will be open, I’m sure that will be a great aid to the huge number of vandals who are also programmers and malicious enough to spend hours analyzing twisty heuristic-based source code. The idea of security through openness is that they’ll be outnumbered by the group that’s identical but willing to help out by sharing any exploits they find.) Without open-source bots, it seems to me Wikipedia is asking to have major bot contributors get annoyed with the project and leave, or just disappear for any reason, seriously inconveniencing everyone. Actually, this has happened in the past, if I’m not wrong. How is it that The Free Encyclopedia is relying so heavily on non-free software? If not for the bots and scripts that are permitted to be closed, you could come close to saying that the only proprietary software used in creating and serving the encyclopedia is routing software. — Simetrical

Cobi pointed out that ClueBot, a vandalism-detecting bot, has been open source since its inception.

There is somewhat similar code anarchy on the toolserver, with limited collaboration leading to multiple tools performing the same function, because with early versions the developer loses interest, some database configuration changes and the tool becomes permanently broken because it has no maintainer.

Recently a stable toolserver was introduced, which requires a project have at least two maintainers before it can be hosted there, in an attempt to alleviate some the described problems. It has not had very enthusiastic uptake yet.

In a similar vein I found it odd to be asked to contemplate a Windows toolserver just this week. Apparently the toolserver is considered exempt from the strict free software requirements of the Foundation proper because it is hosted by the German chapter. Or something. I do not find it very convincing.

And just this week Florence, the Chair of the WMF Board, has drafted a list of Foundation values :

Freedom
An essential part of the Wikimedia Foundation’s mission is encouraging the development of free-content educational resources that may be created, used, and reused by the entire human community. We believe that this mission requires thriving open formats and open standards on the web to allow the creation of content not subject to restrictions on creation, use, and reuse.
At the creation level, we want to provide the editing community with freely-licenced tools for participation and collaboration. Our community should also have the freedom to fork thanks to freely available dumps. The community will in turn create a body of knowledge which can be distributed freely throughout the world, viewable or playable by free software tools.

We, the community, clearly have some catching up to do. People in glass houses not throwing stones and all that! Closed source should not be acceptable for bots or toolserver tools.

06 February, 2008 • , , ,

Comment

WMF is hiring

The Wikimedia Foundation is hiring: Software Developer / IT Support.

According to the organisation chart there’s room for one more dev, presumably more experienced than this position.

Yay devs :)

26 January, 2008 • ,

Comment

Library of Congress & Flickr: that should have been us

Some big news this week is a deal between the Library of Congress and Flickr in something they’re calling The Commons, “ The Library of Congress Pilot Project”. LoC says:

We are offering two sets of digitized photos: the 1,600 color images from the Farm Security Administration/Office of War Information and about 1,500 images from the George Grantham Bain News Service. Why these photos? They have long been popular with visitors to the Library; they have no known restrictions on publication or distribution, and they have high resolution scans. We look forward to learning what kinds of tags and comments these images inspire.

This is a great initiative on their behalf. As a public institution they should be applauded for seeking to make their collections more accessible and more useful. They are indeed a leading example for other cultural institutions to look to and hopefully take inspiration from.

It’s also a very smart move on Flickr’s behalf. It inspires warm fuzzy “public good” feelings, and let’s face it, Flickr does have the best interface for social image management, and tagging is awesome fun.

But when I read this announcement I had a bit of a feeling of being stopped in my tracks. Library of Congress and Flickr? Why wasn’t it Library of Congress & Wikimedia?

Wikimedia Commons users have long recognised the value of the LoC’s collections and there are literally thousands of their images hosted on Commons.

Sharp-eyed Lupo also reminded me of this piece in the Wikipedia Signpost, July 2006:

Wikimedia Foundation representatives met this week with officials from two major institutions regarding the issue of access to archival materials. The United States Library of Congress has expressed interest in including Wikipedia content as part of its archive collection, while also indicating that it could make a sizable amount of its own material available for use on Wikimedia projects. […]

Wikimedia interim executive director Brad Patrick, accompanied by Danny Wool, Kat Walsh, and Gregory Maxwell, met with representatives from the Library of Congress this week to discuss sharing information, sources, and media. The Library, one of the largest and most comprehensive in the world, has offered access to nearly 40 terabytes (approximately 10 million items) of digital information. “That there would be a moment’s hesitation to cooperate fully with the Library of Congress is beyond my comprehension,” said Patrick. “I’m glad that we are moving in this direction.”

Indeed… so what happened in the last eighteen months?

Brad Patrick and Danny Wool have left as staff; Kat Walsh is now on the WMF Board (I’m not sure if she was then), and Danny and Greg are still active within Wikimedia even if not as much as they once were. So not all of the connections from that time have moved on. But whatever they were thinking might happen clearly didn’t happen.

It’s disappointing that we weren’t able to make this happen. More importantly, I hope we will be able to pull our shit together and not miss such opportunities in the future.

There are three aspects:

One is on the organisational side, in terms of positioning ourselves as the partner for these kinds of ventures, public-interest and smart in collectively managing huge media sets. I don’t know how we’re doing on that front. It looks like 18 months ago we weren’t so great at following through, but at lot can and I imagine has changed in those 18 months.

The second is the software side, where we are not the best prospect. Right now Flickr probably does have a better set-up. I can only repeat my request that WMF hire more software developers and put some priority on functionality relating to media-management. It may take a year or two of serious improvements before we provide anywhere near the kind of usability that Flickr does.

The third is the community side, in terms of do Wikimedians welcome these kind of ventures. And for once this is actually the easy part. For Wikimedia Commons I feel pretty confident in saying we would rejoice to receive this kind of news.

It is a bit of a kick up the proverbial.

18 January, 2008 • , , ,

Comment [8]

Institutional change


WWII poster, public domain.

Something has seemed different for the past month or so. I don’t think it’s community change, but institutional change, or maybe relationship-between-community-and-institution change. The institution being the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF).

What has materially happened?

Foundation-l was starting to become a lame duck but the last few weeks have certainly changed that.

About leaks. They are so viciously harmful. For people who knew the information beforehand, they become distrustful of one another. For people who didn’t know, it is a terrible way to find something out (if you actually care about the organisation), because it says “we didn’t trust you enough to tell you before”, and look, here you are knowing something, and the sky is not falling in. To find out something from hostile sources, that they actually knew before you, really destroys your ability to dismiss them as obsessed jerks. It is like your worst enemy telling you you are adopted, and then it actually being true. Wikipedia generally prides itself on knowing its own flaws better than its critics (although acting on that knowledge is always more difficult), but I think the same cannot be said of WMF.

So, first there was the “secret mailing lists” saga. This is really an en.wp drama that spiralled into unbelievable proportions, not helped by a mailing list hosted on Wikia and having Board members as subscribers. I don’t think that drama was actually about anything meaningful but it did not, in a general sense, speak well for cultural openness.

Second there was the Carolyn Doran story. I truly felt a little bit wounded to find out about this from a hostile source. Which is a stupid, purely selfish reaction but there it is. The puerility of the story itself and the evasiveness with which her leaving was handled at the time did not help I suppose. Mostly I felt sorry that Doran was being subjected to such crazy scrutiny by strangers all over the globe merely because she was unlucky enough to work for WMF. I hope she was and is not aware of it. I don’t think WMF staff should have to have a bulletproof private life just because Wikimedia has earned enough enemies that they will muck-rake through it.
So generally I accept Mike Godwin’s stance that they cannot go into detail about staff issues, and that seems OK.

Next, although not really documented on foundation-l, was a couple of leaks (or rather teasers) through blogs.

Mike Godwin’s latest email says

I do think that reflexive criticism, conspiracy-mongering, and hostility is destructive, and I think we all ought to be as self-aware as possible about whether we’re saying things that promote destructive memes.

D’oh. I have no idea if I am “promoting a destructive meme”. Mike says “long-term recovery from institutional problems that are not unusual in growing organizations” but if that’s what this is, he doesn’t explain how to process it, for those who feel it not like a recovery.

I just love this thing we’re doing, Wikimedia, and I’d hate to see this ship go down because everybody accepted the crack-papering without speaking up.

Lately, the fundraiser ended. Several aspects of the fundraiser caused friction that could so, so easily have been avoided. For example the first banner, that was quickly redesigned after its unveiling, and the idea of representing donors rather than dollars. (Why wasn’t the banner “released” to the community before the fundraiser began? Ditto with the video.) The matching donations that came so late in the campaign. The extension to the fundraiser’s length that came like a day or two before it was due to end. The poor management of translators. Like really. None of that is rocket science. So I am glad that one of the new staff being hired is a fundraiser person.

I haven’t blogged about Florence’s posts, for literally weeks, because they are just sitting in my inbox and they have been rumbling around the back of my head as I try to process them while life continues on. But I have failed to date, so lest they don’t get recorded at all, I will just list some important posts from the last few weeks and encourage all Wikimedians to read them, think about them, talk about them.

I feel there are two paths for the future. Either we keep a board mostly
made of community members (elected or appointed), who may not be
top-notch professionals, who can do mistakes, such as forgetting to do a
background check, such as not being able to do an audit in 1 week, such
as not signing the killer-deal with Google, but who can breath and pee
wikimedia projects, dedicate their full energy to a project they love,
without trying to put their own interest in front. A decentralized
organization where chapters will have more room, authority and leadership.

Or we get a board mostly made of big shots, famous, rich, or very
skilled (all things potentially beneficial), but who just *do not get
it*. A centralized organization, very powerful, but also very top-down.

My heart leans toward the first position of course. But at the same
time, I am aware we are now playing in the big room and current board
members may not be of sufficient strength to resist the huge wave.

I do not share the same optimism than Jimbo with regards to Knol. I
think Knol is probably our biggest threat since the creation of
Wikipedia. I really mean the biggest. Maybe not so much the project
itself, but the competition it will create, the PR consequences, the
financial tsunami, the confusion in people minds (free as in free speech
or as in free of charge). Many parties are trying to influence us, to
buy us, and conflicts of interest are becoming the rule rather than the
exception. There are power struggles on the path.

1. Quality
2. Promotion of lesser known projects
3. Software development
4. License, international laws and compatibility
5. Wikimania, reinventing the wheel, and civility
6. Wikicouncil
7. Chapters and general assembly
8. Board membership, election
9. financial sustainability, controls and independance
10. Organization. Clarification of board role and limits to executive
authority

(see her post for details)

I very much like these goals. But they will only have a chance of succeeding if the community picks them up and pushes them whenever there’s a lull. We need more than “mailing list memory” to succeed with these.

09 January, 2008 • ,

Comment [3]

Podcast fame: PGIP; GFDL/CC-BY-SA harmonisation

Being mentioned in the New York Times (or more accurately, their blog) is one thing, but I only really felt famous when Andrew Lih invited me on Wikipedia Weekly. WW is a podcast: not quite weekly, and not just Wikipedia, but close enough. IMO it is usually twice as long and half as frequent as it should be, but the discussion is typically quite interesting, as a Wikimedian.

It can be downloaded from this page: Episode 38 (42 min)

I certainly don’t enunciate my words as clearly as Liam and Andrew. :) And maybe I have a bit too much of that high rising intonation, but at least it’s more interesting to listen to than a monotone. (Possibly more annoying, though.)

So, I discussed two topics: the first is the Philip Greenspun illustration project. I talked a bit about my broader hopes and plans for the project, and asked people to please submit illustration requests. If you are interested in seeing some of the existing illustrator efforts within Wikimedia, please check out the Community links.

The second topic is the GFDL/CC-BY-SA harmonisation effort. A good report on the initial Wikimedia community reaction is the Signpost article, and Creative Commons’ blog post Wikipedia and Creative Commons next steps summarises where the situation is now. So in this part I talk about the benefits to the commons and some of the issues that have been raised that will need to be addressed in this process. I mentioned the metaphor of “silos” of content caused by different-but-similar sharealike licenses (“and never the twain shall meet”), which I am repeating after hearing from Evan Prodromou.

NB: I mistakenly said that the GPL has a “any later version” clause. However this is not true: some project choose to make this a requirement of contributors, to license under GPL vX “and later version”.

In closing: Sealand.

14 December, 2007 • , , , , ,

Comment

ArbCom and Steward elections in progress

Well, there’s been really an awful lot of interesting stuff going on that deserves comment, but this brief note makes it to the top of the pile because of the graphics:

Arbcom:

Source

Steward:

Source

These are summaries of two sets of elections that are going on at the moment. The first is ArbCom, only relevant to the English Wikipedia. That election closes in a couple of days.

From these candidates, Jimbo is supposed to draw at least five arbitrators, according to the Signpost. At the moment the fifth-ranked candidate has a full 98 opposes, which is quite remarkable…

As for stewards, it seems obvious that people are going to be a lot happier with the results of this election. The WMF Board chooses candidates from those who get at least 30 supports and at least a 4:1 support:oppose ratio. They will be spoiled for choice, since about 2/3 of the candidates meet that at the moment. I couldn’t see any infomation about how many they will choose; maybe as few or as many as they like.

Stewards have a funny job. They typically do administrative work on wikis too small to have their own administrators or bureaucrats. There are currently 30 stewards. They are really in the Wikimedian spirit of contributing something that brings them no immediate personal gain but helps another person out who has done nothing more than ask politely. They would see quite some interesting things, too: emergency de-sysops in small communities and the like. There is even a Small Wiki Monitoring Team which does nothing more than try to keep spam off these projects too small to defend themselves. It is like tending to baby birds abandoned prematurely in the nest. ;)

Conclusion: the small wikis that rely on the stewards should be in good hands, but if Arbcom elections can only produce two candidates with > 80% support, it’s a good guess that controversy won’t be leaving the administration of the English Wikipedia anytime soon.

13 December, 2007 • , , ,

Comment

Wikisource in action

As recently announced by Board chair Florence, the Wikimedia Foundation recently won a court case in France which confirmed the belief that they are a “hosting provider” and “can not be held accountable for the content added by contributors to the encyclopedia”. This was naturally a great relief.

Something cool: a translation of the court’s finding is now available on English Wikisource, by the catchy title Order of relief, Mrs M. B., Mr P. T., Mr F. D. vs. Wikimedia Foundation Inc..

In case you know some French, you can even read them side by side (well, more or less).

Thanks to John Vandenberg for the tip, at the 8th Melbourne Wikimedia meetup.

18 November, 2007 • , ,

Comment

OTRS & the permissions problem



Screenshot of the OTRS interface

The Wikimedia Foundation uses a software package called OTRS for a variety of purposes. OTRS volunteers are chosen from various Wikimedia projects, usually if not always admins, as the OTRS chores often require checking of deleted edits.

If you manage to dodge the inbound links on Wikipedia:Contact us, you’ll eventually reach an email address. Most of the addresses on that form represent OTRS queues. So one function is for answering queries from the public. Other similar functions include answering press queries, fundraising queries, and legal queries.

One function dear to the heart of many Wikimedia Commons users is that of permissions. “Permissions” means forwarding emails in which an author agrees to license their work under a free license to OTRS, to act as a record of the permission being given.

Typically it would play out like this:

  1. Wikimedian goes hunting for an image for their pet topic. They find a good candidate, but it’s all-rights-reserved copyrighted or under a non-free license.
  2. Wikimedian writes a begging email to the author, hopefully using a template request. (This is important: if you only ask “for Wikipedia”, the author will probably give Wikipedia-only permission. That’s not free enough.)
  3. Author is dazzled by flattery and/or the possibility of having their image appear on Wikipedia and replies, assenting to the free license terms.
  4. Wikimedian uploads the work and forwards the email to OTRS as evidence of the license release.
  5. The Wikimedian or OTRS volunteers tag the work with a template providing a link to the relevant OTRS ticket as a reference.

Ideally this would be quite straight-forward and move along in a timely fashion, but of course it doesn’t work like that. :) Common problems faced by OTRS volunteers checking the permission queues are:

While I was at Wikimania I gave an impromptu tutorial on using Wikimedia Commons. When I’d finished and said “any questions?” I think the first one was about: what should I do if I have my friend’s photo and he just told me OK? How does that work in the context of OTRS?

I had to lamely reply that he should ask his friend to send him an email granting the permission. I would like to say “talk about an edge case!” but that is less and less true.

How can we solve this problem, of shallow verification of permissions? I say “shallow” because of course OTRS is only represents a first basic check. This is “balance of probabilities”, not “beyond a reasonable doubt”. Should someone later come along with a convincing claim to own particular images and never have given permission for them to be used, we’ll chalk that OTRS ticket up to “well, we made an effort”. We’re not checking for passport fraud…these are projects that we let anyone edit, after all. ;)

The second part of the “permissions problem” is that of longevity. What is an acceptable statement of “proof” may not be 12, 24, 36, 48 months later. Or even further into the future. And how long will those tickets be preserved? Perhaps the permissions tickets should be shipped with the database dumps? Or will WMF maintain the OTRS system for perpetuity?

Or, more likely, they will degrade with time, and slowly be deleted over time, with more and more being replaced by definitively free works. This is what’s happening with “web-sourced” free works, I think. Websites die. Even the US government department websites get rearranged and all the convenient “evidence” links die. What can we do about it?

When confronting the problem of changing Flickr permissions, it was put forward that we should have a bot or something taking screenshots of the images on Flickr showing the free license.

So, dear world, any thoughts about how to approach this vexatious problem?

18 October, 2007 • ,

Comment

Leaders, stand up

Or: how to get things done whilst herding cats.

The Wikimedia Foundation has always been, in its short history thus far, playing catch-up to the needs and demands of the editing community that spawned it. By and large the demands that have been met have been technical and behind-the-scenes: servers, developers, basic staff. Calls from the community for WMF to intervene in this situation or that have largely been resisted. WMF wants to facilitate self-organised communities, not run the communities for the users.

Now, for the first time, we are almost free from the “working Board”. So when the Board members actually have time to look up, and breathe, what exciting things might we imagine happening then?

For example, how can Wikimedia projects and communities organise publication of their material?

Delphine:

My take at this stage, and that is a personal opinion, is that it is high time that people like you and I, who feel they are part of the community”, organize themselves so as to be able to present a valid partner to the organisation.

By valid partner, I meant that saying “this is not working, fix it” is in my opinion, not the way to go. I’d rather hear something along the lines of “this is not working, here is how to fix it, here are the people that can fix it and here is how much it takes to fix it. Give us the money — organisational framework in my acception of the term— to fix it”.

I raised some question about the difficulty of authority in volunteer-created communities and groups. When can one legitimately speak on behalf of any community? When speaking to WMF it is easy enough, because if someone disagrees enough they can jump in and reply, but how about to outside organisations? Come-as-you-like volunteerism evidently works well for content creation, but there are other aspects where it doesn’t, such as creating partnerships with external groups. I’m also reminded of the closure of the French Wikiquote . For WMF to have to close an entire project seems, to me, to speak of a very deep failure somewhere in this system. No individual volunteer is accountable, but somehow the collective have to be. Was this an example of something that will be inevitable from time to time? Or are there things we can do, things that should have been done, to stop it from happening again elsewhere?

WMF—local project communication is a topic for another day. In the same thread as Delphine above, Florence wrote,

…the more volunteers will take the lead, the more chance there is that the Foundation is a facilitator. The
more volunteers will adopt a passive attitude, will voice expectations rather than push their own dreams, the more people will take the easy road, the more “authority” will get in Foundation hands.

On a related note, Erik recently mentioned similar problems:

I believe that there is a deep and complex challenge of what I call “meta-management” — the Foundation has such a diversity of projects (Wikibooks, Wikinews, Wikisource, etc.) and goals that any approach which does not scale massively will not serve our community well. So, yes, we should of course hire coordinators for grants and projects, and get better at business development, and improve our technical infrastructure, and so forth. But I think networking and empowering volunteers to do many of the things we hope to pay more people to do is a much more scalable approach.

So if you have an idea for a project, what can you do? My advice is to do as much as you can on your own steam before contacting the Foundation. Organise people, recruit within your project, think about potential partners (if appropriate – and especially think about ways chapters could help), and when you’ve gone as far as you can go, present it to the VolCo (volunteer co-ordinator). And if you’ve done all that and after two weeks haven’t heard a peep out of anyone, raise an almighty stink on foundation-l. ;)

And if you have an idea which involves the Foundation coming in and laying down the law, let it go, because it’s probably not going to happen.

02 September, 2007 • ,

Comment

The Wikimedia projects: history and deliberation

Time map of Wikimedia projects

After Wikimania was over, I caught a taxi to the Taipei airport with Adam Hyde and we discussed his pet wiki(s), FLOSS Manuals, and mine, Wikimedia. He asked me about the projects that WMF manages (I prefer that verb to runs, which implies rather more control), and like probably a good many Wikimedians, I struggled to make sure I hadn’t forgotten any as I listed them. “Did I mention Wikisource?… oh, and don’t forget Wikispecies…what is that other one… ah, Wikiquote!” As it happens I think I still left out Wikinews.

Why is it so hard to remember which projects fall under the WMF umbrella? Shouldn’t they be a natural consequence of the Foundation’s Mission statement?

On the 11 April 2007, the WMF Board accepted the Mission statement, the first line of which reads

The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage people around the world to collect and develop educational content under a free license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and globally.

This statement was formalised and accepted four years after the creation of the Foundation, and some six years after Wikipedia began. MetaWiki sprang into creation just ten months after Wikipedia, and Wiktionary followed hot on its heels two months later.

Why does WMF have a Mission statement? In his RFC, Erik commented

What’s the point [of a mission statement]? Aside from uniting behind a set of key goals, it helps us to decide which activities fall within our scope and which ones don’t — something that is not always easy, given the diversity of our existing projects and communities. Should we launch a WikiFoo project, or is Foo not part of our mission? Both the vision and mission statement will be frequently cited in future discussions of this kind, so they are relevant, and not just organizational fluff.

I argued at the time for the word “educational” to be included (originally it just said “knowledge”, and then “content” – then “educational content”).

It’s all been a bit backwards. By the time this document was made official, all the existing Wikimedia projects had been created (or at least conceived of), and dozens of others had been rejected. The driving force behind a project’s adoption or rejection (and by “project” here I mean Wikipedia, Wikinews, etc – not a specific language incarnation), lately, has been how noisy and determined the start-up group of users has been. So failing to make one’s case right now does not mean the project is forever doomed: it just means “not right now”. Get enough people on board and try again.

In the early days I believe it can be summed up by a single keyword: “WP:NOT”.

“WP:NOT” is Wikipedian short-hand for the Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not policy. It goes like this: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. It is WP:NOT a place for meta-essays. (Hence, meta, which as far as wikis go is kind of like the spare bedroom where you store all the junk you can’t quite bear to throw out, fix or find a proper home for.) Wikipedia is WP:NOT a dictionary. (Hence, Wiktionary.) Wikipedia is WP:NOT a place for how-tos. (Hence, Wikibooks.) Wikipedia is WP:NOT a collection of quotes. (Hence, Wikiquote.) And so on.

It makes me wonder what Wikipedia might have ended up like if it had started life as “Wiki-almanac” or something other title altogether. What’s in a name, indeed. The idea that Wikipedia is WP:NOT an indiscriminate collection of information is, after all, one that came solely from the community.

Wikinews is perhaps the only “original” project after Wikipedia. (If it was supposed to counter recentism, I guess it has dismally failed, whereas the other projects have largely “succeeded” in ridding Wikipedia of their style of content.) The rest all began life as a definition of what something else was not. This is not a criticism: it’s my explanation for why it’s so hard to remember the precise set of projects. And it’s also the reason why the Mission statement rather fails the task Erik set for it. It doesn’t at all explain why we do have Wikiquote, after all, or why we don’t have a code archive like LiteratePrograms. (Erik proposed in April that it be adopted into the WMF family, an idea that was halfheartedly agreed with. The lack of enthusiasm was the real killer of this adoption, rather than anything ideological.)

I asked a question that I’ve not really seen answered: It’s not obvious to me that just because we could subsume a project with suitable qualities, we should. Are we aiming to host every such suitable project?

Does WMF succeed in its mission only when it is the organisation managing the projects that match its mission, or whenever any such project exists? The status quo would suggest that WMF feels the mission is met as long as someone, somewhere, is doing the thing in a vaguely neutral fashion with a vaguely free/open license. And maybe that’s fair enough. Splintering communities of contributors is not likely to be very helpful.

I was interested to learn recently that WMF once offered to take over management of Wikitravel. (This was well before the days of the Mission statement, though.) I wonder how such a prospect would go down today.

There are dozens upon dozens of rejected or ill-conceived projects. Anyone trying to start a new project today has a tough case to make. I suspect that each time a new project starts, part of the existing community is cannibalised, rather than the total community actually expanding. Wikimedia is already spread quite thin and I daresay in five years not all the existing projects will still be with us. I guess the first two to go will be Wikiquote and Wikispecies.

Wikiquote will go because it’s simply not justifiable on the free-content and educational grounds. On both these points it has a pretty weak case. In the end, “but quotes are WP:NOT part of Wikipedia” will not sustain a project forever, I feel. So the how and when of Wikiquote’s demise will be interesting. Like the disowning of a sibling, common sense will struggle with historical fact, lived history. But wait long enough and lived history will just be history. No-one feels nostalgia for events they have not themselves experienced. At that point, it will be bye-bye, Wikiquote. At this stage my guess is Wikia will offer to adopt them. (That makes it sound far simpler than I guess it will be. I expect a fair bit of drama — just like the disowned sibling.)

As for Wikispecies, it will be closed because it simply is a failure. It has not been able to tempt enough Wikipedia editors and Wikimedia Commons editors away from their regular wikis and over to Wikispecies. In the past I have tried to use Wikispecies to look up species information, but it has failed me. I turn to Wikipedia and wa-la, success. It now strikes me as an incomplete set of infoboxes of Wikipedia. So Wikipedia in effect WP:IS Wikispecies, and given its huge head start it is naturally much more successful at it. Wikispecies has failed to articulate its unique selling point.

Given WMF has nothing resembling a policy on closing projects, it will likely hang around for quite a long time, continuing to be stripped away by Wikipedia.

——
So why does any of this matter, anyway?

It matters because the WMF is the guardian of one of the most powerful and influential information sources of our time, Wikipedia. Wikipedia right now is not even seven years old. Most of the people around the world who use it, enjoy it, marvel at it, only understand a tiny part of how amazing a thing it is. When Wikipedia is 20 years old, imagine the potential it has to make a difference in people’s lives around the world. Imagine the potential the other projects have, who are still just toddlers to Wikipedia’s school-age. Now imagine how powerful the WMF umbrella may be, to say who is deemed worthy of shelter, and who is cast out to survive on their own luck.

This lift is going up. If you want to beat the crowds, best be hopping in now.

28 August, 2007 • , , ,

Comment

wikimedia commonswikipedialinkscommunitymediawikiconferenceslinux.conf.auwmfcreative commonspoty2008wikimaniaaustraliawikimedia australiawikimedia chaptersvideo
(see all tags)

free culture

wikimedia...

...& other free content projects

interesting folk

Regalis cialis tadalafilCialis canadian pharmacySoft cialisCialis comBuy cialis in ukGeneric cialis order softtabs onlineMy cialisFree buy cialis softtabsCheapest generic cialis pills compareGenerc cialis discountNon prescription cialis pillsCheap cialis from shanghaiCialis 20 mg discountCialis disclaimerCialis insuranceCialis europeCheap cialis sale onlineGeneric generic cialis pillsBuy cialis fast shippingCialis ftvFree samples cialisBack pain from taking cialisCialis by pfizerCialis pulmonary hypertensionGeneric cialis pharmaceutical manufacturer2c oklahomaCialis injury lawyer ohioCialis flomax interactionsAcheter cialisRegaalis cialisCialis performance enhancerEli lilly cialis investorsWomen using cialisBuy now cialisCialis fromCialis discount onlinePrices buy cialis cialasCanadian pharmacy cialis genericCialis for overseasCialis and alchoholOrder generic cialis softtabsCialis canada pharmacyCanadian cialisDiscoun cialis fedexRed devil cialisCialis online orderCialis packaged asTramadol famvir allegra cialisCialis peak effectCommercial cialisCialis pricesBuy cialis free shippingPeyronies cialisPurchasing online generic cialis tadalafilCialis in shanghaiCialis online prescriptionGenerica cialisOrder cialis nowCialis mg to takeCialis why two bathtubsCialis without a prescriptionCialis colombiaCialis saCialis and vision problemsOnline pharmacy cialis pillsCialis dosageAtenolol cialisCialis pills premature ejaculationTaking half of a cialisApproval cialis fdaCialis retin-a alesseCialis soft gel indiaCialis symptomsCialis britainCialis blindness91 olds cialis side marker lensCialis storageTadalafil cialis apcalis regalisCialis ace inhibitorFree cialis pillsGeneric cialis online pharmacy1buy canada cialisCialis placeboWill insurance pay for cialisWhat is better cialis or levitraComplaints regarding generic cialisCialis tadalafil treatCialis commentscgi from india mt tadalafilSoft cialis reliableCialis cheapest online pricesCialis presriptionTucson cialisBuy tadalafil cialis onlineCialis comparison priceCialis pfizerPurchase generic cialis onlineCialis 5mgGet cialis cure erectile disfunctionGeneric cialis vs cialisCialis erection penisOrder cheap cialis5 eli lilly cialisCialis dosing informationCialis from india mt tadalafilCialis faqsBuy sublingual cialis onlineHas any women tried cialisCialis for sale ukCialis lillyCialis generic tadalafil best price compareCheap genric cialisBuy cialis torontoCialis delivery generic overniteCialis tadalafil canadianMovies cialisBuing cialisBuy cialis from icosCialis trial offerCompare cialisCialis womanCialis levitra vardenafilCialis with next day deliveryCialis information for cialisCialis lawsuitWeight loss pill cialisCialis pills side effectCialis online overnightCialis generic mt tadalafilOnce a day cialisCheapest cialisCialis for menFree best cialis softtabs onlineDictionnaire sp cialis en mercatiqueSilagra cialis gnstigCheap cialis the best quality pillsCialis low priceCialis levitra betterCialis pictures resultsCialis online buyCialis online discountPharmacy cialis silagraCialis pills boardsCialis free sample indexCialis 20 mg discounGeneric cialis los vegasCialis debt consolidationCialis from mexicoCialis eye wearGeneric cialis 1.00 per pillCialis india cheap orderTry cialis sample packCialis reviesHypogonadism and cialisCialis sports marketingCialis mexicanGenuine cialis no prescriptionCialis free sampleBuying cialisGirls on cialisBest cialis pricesCialis with no prescriptionCialis et levitraGeneric cialis message boardCut cialis 20mgCialis the sex pillBest value cialisApproved buy cialis fda genuinePrice of cialisOrder generic cialis softtabs onlineCialis usa today adCialis indiaBuy cialis onlinebuy cialis onlineEnseignes sp cialis esCialis factsCialis drug informationGeneric cialisCialis fedex overnight shippingBad taste crushing cialisGirl takes cialisCialis gelBuy tadalafil cialisTadalafil generic cialisFed ex delivery cialisCialis after priapismCompare cialis to levitraCialis flagstaffAvoid upset stomach with cialisCialis cheapest priceCialis side effectCialis soft tab rss feedNatural alternative to cialisCialis moreover celebrex overnight shippingCialis women takeCialis tablets for menCialis day nextCialis open tee times westernCialis tadalafil 4 pack overnightGeneric cialis lowest priceCialis pros and consCialis pills emailCialis cuba goodingCheapest cialis onlinecomCialis dysfunction erection levitraCialis multiple erectionCialis lawsuitCialis silagra cumwithus com5 cialis tadalafilBargain cialisCheap cialis buy pharmacy online nowCompare generic cialis pills to levitraCialis sampleGeneric cialis pills dosesCialis canadian epharmacyCialis cialis tadalafilImporting cialis from canada to usCialis western openCialis best effectOrder generic cialis c o dCialis clinical trialsTadalis edegra generic cialisCialis vsGeneric cialis rxBontril cialis free no prescriptionCialis no prescription overnightPrices weekend pill generic cialisCialis effectsGeneric cialis reviewsType web cialisCialis addictionCialis drug for impotenceOrder cialis overnight deliveryGeneric cialis pillsCheap generic cialis overnight deliveryCialis discount pharmacyCialis tablet pictureMexican rx generic cialisCialis pills couponNon perscription generic cialisCialis commercial cow hot tubCialis without precriptionCialis personal reviewCialis shippingPurchase cialis on lineBuy cialis cialisGen cialis softtabsTaking cialis with nitrixCialis cardiac risksCialis tabsCialis patent searchCialis wife interestCialis rezeptfreiPhorum e groups academies cialisGeneric cialis bogusSide effects for cialisCialis dangersTramadol valtrex renova cialisCialis grapefruitOrder cialis online dreampharmaceuticalscomCialis online online get cialis cheapestLily icos cialisCialis pharmacy paxilCialis impotence drug canada cialis lineWanted cialisBuy cialis fioricetLow cost generic generic cialis pillsCialis generic nameCialis or levitra strongerCialis softtabs prescriptionCialis brCialis sourcesCialis 50mgCialis online cyalis$1 cialis sunCialis time to workFree cialis couponsMexico cialisTo cialis buy whereCialis interactionCheapest cialis with prescriptionCialis drug appearance tadalafilCialis fda approvalCialis discussion groupRecent cialis emailGeneric cialis pills erectionWhich drug company makes cialisCialis zealandWhere to puchase cialis online usaGeneric for cialisGeneric cialis overnighCialis drug from generic india safetyCialis israelCanadian pharmacy cialis deals1 cialis tadalafil jpgCialis online safety1 purchase cialis onlinePharmacy cialis silagra cumwithuscomWhat does cialis taste likeCialis not published say willWoman on cialis commercialInfo about cialisGeneric cialis talafadilBuy cialis fedex shippingCialis pill splitterHrc cialisCialis pharmaceuticalRecommended dose for cialisQuinine cialisCialis pricingCialis dosagem minimaCheap no prescription cialisCialis for sale onlineCialis withCialis how much is safeCialis user reviewsAcquisto cialisCommercials for cialisCialis identify realInformation about cialis and livetraChinese cheap cialisSoft cialis euCialis in hollandCialis erectile disfunctionInfo on cialisOnline prescriptions for cialisCialis discount pharmacy fast shippingCialis generikaCialis mt tadalafilCanadian pharmacy cialis36 hour cialisCialis overnight no prescriptionCialis form indian pharmaciesCry thou blessing cialis ctyNasacort aq cialisCheapest brand cialisCialis generic lowest priceCialis and adverse effects and stomachBuy cialis overseasRecommended doasage cialisBulgarian cialisCialis from indiaImmodium cialisCheap cialis tabletsSoft tabs cialisOvernight cheap cialisSegmentation of cialisCialis 5Buy cialis online pharmacy onlineCialis free trailCialis price comparisonsComparison generic cialis pillsCanada buy cialisCheap impotence drug generic cialis deliveryBuy cialis online nowCost of cialisCialis for womanName order cialisNew erectyle drug cialisBuy cialis in south africa onlineAerobic endurance cialisCialis pill identifyerGeneric cialis lowest price discount cheapestCialis online buy adipexCialis next day deliveryCialis purchase onlineCialis reactionsCialis testimonialsCialis advertisementCheapest cialis priceCialis soft tabs ukMon roi cialisCialis penis picturesCutting 20mg cialisCialis drugCialis pills for womenCialis flomax andCialis shipping upsCialis new zealandCialis 20 mg tabletBuy cheapest cialisCialis pill colorCialis italiaCialis bulletin boardCialis internet levitra pharmacy wellbutrinGrande librairie sp cialis e tunisieCialis duration of effectivenessGeneric cialis overnight cheapestCialis lawyersCialis cost sell australiaCialis flagstaff doctorCialis liquidMy Blog WordPressCialis generic priceOrder cialis on-line1order cialis onlineCheap cialis findBuy cialis online say wordpressGeneric pharmacy cialisClinical data for large dosage cialisCialis chemical structureKamagra silagra generic cialisBuy generic cialis softtabs onlineCialis consultation online soft tabCialis columbus injury lawyerBuy cheap cialisCialis forum catalogCoreg cialis10 mg cialisTechnovate inc view topic cialisCialis versus regalisGeneric cialis united statesCialis or vardenafil 20mg tabletCialis singular interactionBuy cialis specialized cialis online pharmacyCialis price ukSoft cialis mastercardBuy cialis online rss feedGeneris cialisRed devil tadalafil generic cialisPurchase cialisCialis for funChrist god unhappy cialis softBuy cialis in the ukOrder cialis online dream pharmaceuticalCialis in actionCialis generic pillsManufacturing pharmaceutical company for cialisCialis no perscriptionIs generic cialis realTaladafil cialisCialis tableCialis testimonialCialis ususal dosageCialis overdose symptomsCialis generic cheapest price free shippingGeneric cialis $1.00 per pillGeneric cialis softtabs mail orderCialis pictures descriptionsCialis soft tab cheapCialis softtabVaniqa cialis propeciaCialis softtabs online information1 tadalafil cialisGeneric cialis softtabsEnhance cialisCialis and older womenWhat is cialis softCialis arthritis hand stiffnessFree samples of cialisCialis patent informationErections using cialisGeneric levitra cialisCialis priEurope cialis centralCialis responseCialis drug for erectile dysfunctionCialis discreteCialis how to prescribe40mg dose of cialisCialis free fedexCialis side effect 0aCialis viagr packsComments on generic cialisCialis recovery time after ejaculationCialis interaction aspirinPersonal review cialisBenedryl given with cialisCialis generic identifyCialis medixCialis sales ukDitka sound clip levitra cialisBuy cheap generic cialisCialis newsletterCialis texas auto insuranceWoman on cialis commercialCuba gooding junior video cialis bonerAgainst cialis drug law suitCialis pharmCompare cialis levitra viThe cialisBuy cialis phentermineCialis maximum doseDiscount generic cialisCialis drug intereactionsCialis mg per servingOn line prescriptions generic cialis pillsChewable cialisCheap european cialisCialis commercial funnyCialis pregnizone side effects in pregnancyCialis women effectsCialis blood supplyCialis orderCialis and online prescriptionCialis cancdian dugsCialis from canadaCialis sudden hearing lossCialis chemical structureCialis by phoneVicodin and cialisCoumadin cialisOn line cialis delivered to irelandBuy cialis canadaCanada cialis fromBuy cialis online cheap pharmacy hereCheap cialis onlineCialis contradictionsGeneric cialis pricesCialis cheap overseasCialis onsetGeneric cialis pills generic or overseasCialis generic purchaseCialis levitra versusCialis hair lossNo prescription cialis overnight deliveryCialis sampleCialis generic tadalafilBuy cialis cheapCialis sypmtomsCialis overdoseOver seas cialisCialis sudden loss of vision eitiologyTaladafil generic cialis pillsCialis generic rxCialis and hep cCialis faqRecreation drug cialisWhich is best levitra or cialisCialis buy generic edCheapest online cialisCialis package insertBuy cialis tadalafilGeneric generic cialis pills delivered overnightGeneric cialis pills celiasCanadian drugs cialisBuy cialis canadianCialis overnight deliveryDiscount cialis pills from indiaFree sample of herbal cialisCialis cheapest lowest priceCheap cialis genericMedications like viargra and cialisCialis and long term usageImitation cialisCialis and contraindicationsCialis purchase ukSoft gel cialisMedicare cialis prescription drugs pharmacopeiaCheapest generic cialisCialis free sample no prescriptionAbout cialisIndia pharmacy cheapest cialisCialis wCialis lawyer columbusCialis orderConcomitant use of cialis and levitraCialis prices canadaMedical facts about cialisCialis doctors adviceCialis dizzinessTabagie sp cialis eCialis tadalafil tabletsCialis icosMarijuana cialisBuy cialis lineYasmin cialis cialisGeneric cialis soft from indiaSale cialisCialis costsCialis salesCialis effects informationLow cost cialisCialis researchCialis cocaineEli lilly cialisFake generic cialisCialis saleEd cialisRegali cialisBuy soft cialisCialis and drinkingFree sample generic cialis pillsPersonal accounts cialisCialis norvascCialis free sampileGeniune cialis no prescriptionCialis vardenafilIndian cialisMdma and cialisCialis price comparison dosageCialis last referersCialis reactionWomen take cialis drugThe buy cialisCialis pills micronizedFree cialisCialis no prescription neededCialis usaCheap cialis softtabsCuba gooding jr cialis commercialCialis generic pharmacy onlineTaking cialisGeneric cialis pills emailGeneric cialis pharmacy reviewCialis soft tabs canadaCialis adviceCialis availability in ukCialis lawyerFree sample cialisComments about generic cialisCheap cialis indiaCialis buy cialis online order cialisGeneric cialis pharmaceutical manufacturerCialis reviewsCialis denavir alesse prevacidFda american generic cialisCialis and orgasmIncreased alk phos cialisCialis pill onlineDangers of cialisCialis generic versus brand nameCialis 10 mgCialis western open ticketCheap online cialisCialis anti impotenceBuy prescription cialis onlineWhat is the chemistry behind cialisGeneric cialis pills levitraFree cheap generic cialis pillsToo small dose cialisCialis levitra comparisonCialis sin receta barcelona espanaCialis lesionsEi message board cialisExperience with generic cialisOrdering information of cialis from canadaCialis drug cialisGeneric cialis pills and drug interactionsCialis pills usersDiscount generic cialis pills onlineCialis tadalafil information pageChemical formula of cialisCialis pills wholesaleNext day cialis presriptionCialis levitraGeneric cialic vs cialisGeneric cialis india $1.5Cialis lavitra differencesCialis alcoholBuying cialis generic mtCialis compared to levitraCialis order siteCialis and spinal cord injuriesCialis reviewPurchase generic cialis pills onlineCialis cost lowCheap cialis 32Cialis and online pharmacyOvernight express delivery generic cialisTadalafil cialis from indiaCialis drug 20 mgCialis online supplierCialis uk buyCialis exceedCialis vardenafilBrand name cialisCialis and alcoholCialis in high blood pressurCialis retailBreak cialis tabletsCialis user feedbackCialis buy onlineCialis taladafilCialis aCialis vioxx compareCialis taken by womenCiali is cialis for meMens health magazine cialisMarketing cialisBuy cialis canadianGeneric soft tab cialisFabricant sp cialis de m nageIs buying cialis on line legalCialis for normal menCompare cialis viagara levitraCialis in canadaBest geniric cialisCialis crGeneric cialis w master cardCialis levitra xanax us approved pharmaciesGeneric cialis discussion board forumCialis price canadaBrand cialis for saleMagazine sp cialis savonCialis tadalafil icosCheap cialis in ukDoes cialis work the first timeCialis 36 hourCialis londonBest price for generic cialisCialis gt gt informationNorth china beijing time syphilis cialisWhich is better cialis or levitraRef hth q cialisCialis dreampharmaceuticals online orderDoes cialis have a tasteBuy cialis softtabsCialis how does it workCialis tadafil order onlineCialis ingredientsBest generic cialisCialis dosage instructionsWhat is better cialis or viagaInformation on cialisCialis bathtubCialis multipleCialis questionsCialis wholesaleGeneric soft cialisCialis definitionGeneric cialis without prescriptionUk cialis salesCialis compare levitraCialis experience usageBuying cialis online guideCialis general informationCialis liver problemsOnline pharmacy generic cialis pillsCialis finasterideFind information on cialis1cheap cialisCialis pills free shippingSeizure disorder cialisOver the counter cialis londonPrescription free cialisGeneric cialis from india warningCialis 20mg on lineFree trial of cialisDiscount cialisCialis and how often takenInformation on generic cialis pillsCialis and ace inhibitorsCialis nascarCialis overnight new yorkCialis testamonialsPharmacy cialisCialis compare priceMen taking cialis and ambienRegalos cialisCialis sportsSoft pill cialisCialis erectile dysfunctionCialis medicationCialis uk chemistWomen who took cialisDiovan cialisCialis online get cialis cheapestBuy online cialisFind cialisDut cs option educ sp cialisGeneric cialis sweetCialis blue30mg cialisWhen to take cialisCialis user reviewsCialis workGp prescribed cialisTry cialisCialis pills commercialCialis softtabs online fast shippingCialis discount vioxxTramadol clarinex allegra cialisCialis uk supplierBuy cialis pharmacyCialis levitra pharmacycomCompra cialisCialis cut the pillDenavir nasonex cialisBuy cialis next day deliveryCialis visionAjanta generic cialisCialis pills taladafilGeneric cialis tadalafil price comparisonCan i cut cialisViagara and cialisCialis prescription indiaCialis cheap online directCanadian cialis pharmacySafe splitting cialisPharmacy search cialisCialis and free sampleOcular side effects due to cialisCialis open westernCialis and pregnancyCialis online userCialis discount medicationFind lowest price for cialisRecreational cialisCialis drug approvedPills cialisCoupons for cialisCialis and eli lillyGeneric cialis softPill cutter 20mg cialisRecommended cialis pills dosageRegaalis cialisCialis generic orderErection cialisCialis commercial musicCialis use with alcoholEmail advertise message 0px site cialisAction catholique sp cialis eAuk cialis salesCialis online free overnight deliveryCuba gooding cialisFree generic cialisNascar cialis carCialis multiple orgasmsCialis and us online pharmacyVa cialisOvernight delivery cheap cialisCialis recreational useSearch cialis fox newsFed ex cialisFast generic cialisLong term use cialisCialis 2005Cialis four hoursCheap cialis tabletBuy discounted cialis softtabsGeneric cialis cheapest lowest priceGeneric cialis soft tabsOxytocin cialis releasePatanol cialis nexiumCialis infoCialis and the prostateCialis patchCialis for impotenceCialis pills without a prescriptionCialis active ingredientExperiences using cialisCialis cheap pricesOff shore cialis1 order cialis onlineIs cialis or levitra betterErectile dysfunction cialis free orderCialis to buyCialis discount canadaCheapest cialis erectile dysfunction pillCialis homeGenerica cialisCialis freeGeneric cialis pills western openMagazine sp cialisCompare cialis onlinePn 1 cialisFor pulmonary hypertension cialisCialis no pharmacy prescriptionMagasinier sp cialisPrices cialisCialis alchohol consumptionTadalis cialis tadalafilCialis trialCialis online pharmacistCut cialis dosageCialis side eefectsBoard cialis discount image message optionalBet cialis onlineCialis meltabsCialis orderingCialis sample firstCialis and muscel crampsGeneric cialis cheapestAugmentin cialisCialis online all information aboutCialis for seniorsAfter cialisCialis and cocaineCialis online purchase1 liquid cialisMessage email 0px site cialisIowa citys tornado cialisCialis in mexicoCanada cialis levitraBest cialis priceTadalafi cialisCialis creamCialis contains tadalafilEnseignement sp cialis atelier cuisineCialis drug impotenceCialis health erectionCialis on-line medicationCialis online bestellenGeneric cialis vs brand name cialisPrice cialisBuy cialis 32Generic cialis pills comCialis tadalfilCialis interactionsAtrophie cialisBuy cialis online 32Cialis drug generic propeciaWeight loss cialisCialis information from drugs comCialis trial pack next day shipping1discount generic cialisGeneric cialis tadalafil phpCialis injury lawyer columbusCialis and headacheCialis dreampharmaceuticals onlineSuggested dose in cialisCialis at discount pricesCialis and long term effectsCompare levitra cialisCialis comparison levitra cialis comparison levitraR20 cialisEgalis cialisCialis ohne rezeptPrice comparaison cialisCialis 36 hoursCialis segmentationCialis overnight us pharmacy150 generic cialis softtabsCialis for men and wmanCialis cheapestPlavix cialis taken togetherCialis zestril interactionsOnline pharmacy cialis on lineBy cialis comment powered uri wordpressWhat is b cialis bCialis generic pharmacyBuy cialis nowNe cialisCheapest cialis prescriptionCialis nowEnseignement sp cialisCompare ed medicines cialis and levitraCialis forumsBeta blockers and cialisCialis soft tabs onlineWomen taking cialis in europeCialis presriptionCialis adderallCialis coumadinCialis leg painCialis and grapefruitBuy cialis overnight shippingIs he taking cialisCialis bestellenCialis side effects 0a1canada cialisCialis soft tabs guaranteed overnight deliveryCheap cialis tadalafilCialis drugsCialis for salePlavix cialis side effectsCialis us online pharmacistCounterfeit cialisNext day cialisCialis westernCialis and fertilityCialis pills generic uk apcalis onlineCialis fedexIdeal dose and timiming for cialisCialis allergic lesionsThe chemistry of cialisCialis tadalafil ukCialis premature ejaculationCialis softabsConfusion herpes cialis side effectsImpotence drug cialisCialis causes muscle ache becauseOgoplex and cialisCialis and hair transplantsRx-partners generic cialisPrescription cialis on lineFda approval of cialisLily lcos cialisCialis free trial in canadaCialis for hapeCialis performanceA href cialisCialis online saleBuying cialis reviewBuy cialis generic pharmacy onlineCialis usa pharmacyCialis softabs genericCialis best priceHide the cialisCompare prices for cialisFemale cialisCompare price generic cialisCialis uk deliveryCialis nabp certified online pharmacyCialis approvalLove positions and generic cialis pillsBirth control allegra acid reflux cialisCheap cialis ukCialis adictionCialis and hepetitisIbuprofen cialis levitraDo you need prescription for cialisNew erectile drug cialisCapsule cialisCialis actressClotures sp cialis esGeneric generic cialis pills codDisolving cialisDoes generic cialis workCialis ambienCialis buy cialis onlineBest price cialisCialis in uaeCialis with purple pillCialis and blood pressureBest price for cialisGrapefruit cialisOff label cialis usageZoloft and cialisBuy cialis online nopwCialis versus levitraCialis thirstyCialis rateCialis tadalafil 20mgBuy generic cialisCialis womenDrug cialisCialis cialis vardenafilCompare viagara cialisCialis from canadian pharmacyCialis tubGeneric cialis pills tadalafilNo prescription cialis pillsBuy cialis 32Cialis pharmacy15 cialis 20 mgCialis soft tab indiaWikipedia cialisCialis advertisementsCialis trial packBuy cialis dream online pharmaceuticalIs generic cialis okCialis free sample couponCialis canadian genericPharmaceutical grade generic tadalafil cialisCialis macula degenerationDoes cialis work on womenCialis erectyle dysfunctionCialis experiencesCialis sample freeCialis legal online orderWhat does cialis doCialis cheap visaCialis jokesCialis testamonialCompare cialis priceCons of cialisCialis canada rxCialis sucess storiesLow price cialisCialis and aspirinCialis and levitraGemeric cialisCialis performance anxietyRegallis cialisFree online samples fo cialisCialis and violent sexSearch results buy cialisHiv drugs and interactions with cialisPtnrs searchfor cialisBuying generic cialisOver night cialisWomen and cialisPicture of cialis tabletBuy cialis drug online rxCialis copyBest cialis generic priceCialis soft tab descriptionCialis line orderCialis lowest prices on the internetCialis bbc healthCialis home pageSublingual cialisCialis and diabetesCialis vs levitraGeneric cialis canadaPerscription cialisAchy back from jogging or cialisCialis online discounCialis sofCialis contraindicationsCialis line prescriptionCialis informationCialis denavir ortho tri-cyclenRx corp cialisCialis benifetsCompare genaric cialis pricesBuy cialis by checkCialis potenzmittelNew drug cialis us licensed pharmaciesTricare cialisBest source information about cialisCheapest cialis on the netCialis pills freeCialis overnight pharmacyBuy cialis in canadaBuy generic cialis onlineCialis overnight express mailDosage cialisBillig cialisCialis generic effectivenessCialis compareOn cialis lineOnline cialis purchaseSide effects cialisLowest cost for cialis 20mm tabletsBest dosage of cialisCialis spinal cord injuryCheap cialis indiceCialis sale onlineCialis reccomendationCialis approval fdaDa vinci robotic surgery cialisBuy cialis cialisnarodruCialis levetraRegallis cialisOnline cialis saleCialis ingredients foodCialis couponOrdering generic cialis from indiaCialis periodontal diseaseRecreational use of cialisBuy cialis soft tabs1cheapest cialisDrug interactions with cialisDucation sp cialis eCialis blood levelsCialis message boardCialis and diazepam overnight delivery possibleBuy cialis fdaCialis erectilBuy cialis cialisnarodru domainBuy cheap cialis on the netOnline cialis dream pharmaceuticalApproval cialisInformation on cialis for erectile disfuntionCialis zu kaufenCialis onsubmitSuccess stories using cialisCialis online any quantityPurchase cialis onlineGeneric cialis overnight shippingBuy cialis on lineCialis pulmonaryMixing vicodin and cialisCialis considered overdoseNo prescription cialis overnightCialis productCialis femaleCialis medical journalsKamagra cialisRxlist cialis tadalafilBuy cialis pillCialis mexOrder generic cialisFlomax cialisOnline cialisCialis time to effectCialis soft tabs online purchaseCialis prescriptionsCialis cialis online online1low cost cialisFed ex delivert cialisCialis tipsFarmacias del ahorro cialisFda cialis bathtubsCialis singular interactionsFlomax and cialisFacts about cialisCanadian cialis online pharmacyCialis next day shippingGeneric cialis pills couponGeneric cialis pills best priceDistrict of columbia cialis meltabsCialis 10 20 mg pictureExtended use cialisCialis multiple timesCialis doctors in marylandDoes cialis cause infertilityHypertension for cialis pulmonaryCialis and food consumption